DPM Gan Kim Yong's Media Interview on the 20th Joint Council for Bilateral Cooperation (JCBC)

MediaCorp Ch 8 News: DPM, JCBC is convening for the 20th time this year. What is the significance of this and what deliverables can we expect from the meeting?

DPM Gan Kim Yong: JCBC started in 2004, so this year we are going to have the 20th JCBC. JCBC is the highest level of Government coordinating platform for all collaboration between Singapore and China, particularly at the Government level. It also coordinates several projects under the JCBC. For example, we have three Government-to-Government (G-to-G) projects. The Suzhou Industrial Park (SIP) was the first one that we started 30 years ago, and it is celebrating its 30th anniversary this year. We also have the Tianjin Eco-city project, as well as the Chongqing Connectivity Initiative. In addition to that, we also have a state-level bilateral project, and that is the Guangzhou Knowledge City.

Beyond these G-to-G and state-level projects, we also have eight business councils with the various provinces and cities. These business councils provide a platform for businesses to interact with one another, and also for the government officials to oversee this collaboration of the private sector. These are the many channels of collaboration between China and Singapore, and the JCBC oversees these various levels of cooperation.

This year, we are marking the 20th meeting of the JCBC. So, it is an opportunity for us to look back on the progress that we have achieved over the last two decades, but at the same time look forward to see how we can chart the way forward. So, on one hand, it is looking back, (and) on the other hand, we are also building on the past achievements and charting the road ahead.

Channel NewsAsia: DPM, when we speak to Singaporeans on the ground, what happens at a high level of diplomacy may not be so relevant to them in their daily lives. 20 years on, how has the platform of JCBC changed and made a tangible impact for Singapore and Singaporeans?

DPM Gan: I think you are right that sometimes, Government-to-Government talks and discussions may not seem very relevant to the people on the streets. But in fact, it has shaped the relationship between Singapore and China over the last 30, 40 years. We are going to celebrate 35 years of bilateral relationship very soon. This is something that has been built over the years. In fact, our bilateral collaboration has also been strengthened generation after generation of leadership change, and this has created a very conducive environment for the two countries to work together.

First of all, on the economic front, I think many businesses have benefited from this strong bilateral relationship. The SIP is one example. Singapore participated in it, and through the SIP, our businesses have the opportunity to invest in China, work with China, develop enterprises and industries, (and) at the same time, participate in China's economic development and growth. This is one example of how we are able to link up the economies of the two countries. The SIP is celebrating its 30th anniversary. It has come a long way, and has now become a very mature industrial park. It has its own system; it developed its own model way beyond where we started. In fact, they are beginning to now replicate the SIP model in different parts of China, and they are even thinking about how they can export this SIP model beyond China to different countries with whom they have (a) bilateral relationship. SIP, in a way, has created offsprings, and this is part of a collaboration between China and Singapore, and many of our companies are participating in the SIP project.

Beyond the economy, there is also Government-to-Government collaboration. The JCBC, for example, is a platform where Government officials – at the highest level and at different levels – have an opportunity to interact and engage with one another, to build trust, confidence, and a deeper understanding of each other's concerns and interests. This allows the two countries to collaborate on many platforms.

At the same time, at the people-to-people level, there is also engagement. I think many of you would be familiar with student exchanges between our schools, all the way from primary schools to secondary schools, JCs, as well as Universities. There are also opportunities for Singapore students to study at Chinese universities, and Chinese students are here too. These exchanges at the people level are very important. Recently, you have heard that we have announced a visa-free arrangement between the two countries. This is also part and parcel of the results of JCBC’s engagement. Because of this close relationship and partnership, we were able to also encourage people-to-people exchanges. Many of us may not realise that this is an outcome of the partnership, but eventually, the collaboration has brought about many benefits for Singaporeans and Singapore businesses.

The Straits Times: DPM, it is very heartening to hear about all the benefits that you have talked about. The nature of our bilateral relationship has evolved as the development gap between our both countries narrowed over the past 30 years. When you travel to China these days, do you feel that they now perceive Singapore differently? To put it more bluntly, are we less valuable to them as compared to 30 years ago?

DPM Gan: Not at all. It depends on how you define value. If you look at China and say that there are many things we can go to China and teach them something that they do not know about, I think that will be the wrong approach. Any bilateral relationship is always built on a win-win outcome. Even in the beginning, there were areas that they needed support and help, and there were areas that we also needed to have China's support (for). For example, we were looking at China to (have) some access to the market. We were also looking at how we can help China's companies come out of China, and have access to the region, particularly Southeast Asia. Today, we also see there are many things we can learn from China, including their technology, and know-how in the sustainability-related green economy, for example. These are areas where I think they are able to share with us their experience, and we also have things to offer to them. I think the relationship must be built on a win-win basis, so that it is mutually beneficial. This is the only way to ensure that a partnership can be sustained, built, and strengthened.

Ch 8 News: DPM, now that you are being appointed the Co-chair of the Committee, what (outcomes) have you set for yourself (and) for Singapore to move forward with this new role?

DPM Gan: Thank you. I think I have always been very closely associated with Singapore’s relationship with China. As Minister for Trade and Industry, even before I was appointed as a Deputy Prime Minister, I was already engaged with China in terms of our trade and commercial relationship. We have (a) very close working relationship with the Ministry of Commerce in China. We work on bilateral collaboration, encouraging our companies to trade with one another, and (promoting) investment flows between the two countries. We also collaborate on international platforms to discuss international collaboration, such as ASEAN-China and RCEP, for example. There are many platforms where we work together. We also work bilaterally on new and emerging areas like (the) digital economy and green economy. We have been working very closely between China and Singapore at the commercial level between the two Ministries.

So, I am familiar with China, and having been appointed to be the Co-chair of JCBC, I look forward to working with my counterpart, the other Co-chair, from China, Executive Vice Premier Ding Xue Xiang. This (JCBC) will be held in Singapore, and I think this is his second visit to Singapore. The previous one was about 10 years ago, when he accompanied President Xi who was visiting Singapore. I look forward to meeting him again in Singapore. Even before that, our JCBC was co-chaired by him and then-Deputy Prime Minister Lawrence Wong last year. I was with DPM Wong at that time when we held the JCBC in Tianjin. I was part of the JCBC delegation, so I look forward to working with Vice Premier Ding. Again, this is an opportunity for us to look back at what we have achieved the last 20 years, and look forward to planning for the next 10-20 years. It is a bit of a vision 20-20 – looking at the last 20 years, and looking forward to the next 20 years, what our key plans are.

But I must say that over the last 20 years, our bilateral relationship has been growing from strength to strength, from generation to generation. Every generation, we refresh our relationship. Very often, you find that this partnership is, in a way, very personal. You need to build trust between the leaders at all levels – Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister, Vice Premier, as well as the Ministers at official levels. You need to build that understanding, trust, and interest with one another, so that you can continue to explore areas that are of common interest between our two countries.

In particular, I think both of us will be looking at many of the new and emerging areas relating to sustainability, which is a global concern that all countries are worried about. We want to exchange views and ideas on how we can work together to move towards zero carbon. I think this transition process is something that is of interest to both parties. Associated with this will be emerging green economy-related businesses, whether it is carbon businesses, green financing, or green investments. These will be projects that we will be discussing. We are also looking at collaboration on the digital front – how can we talk about digital payments system, digital trade documentation, and how can we help and support each other's digitalisation journey. These are emerging areas that are quite new in nature, and we will be talking about how we can cooperate in these areas.

Going beyond this, we are also looking at how we can further strengthen and grow the various G-to-G projects. I mentioned a few of them – SIP, Tianjin Eco-City, as well as the Chongqing Connectivity Initiative. These are projects that are ongoing, and we will review them. As I said, SIP is celebrating its 30th anniversary; Tianjin celebrated its (milestone) anniversary last year, and CCI will be celebrating its (milestone) anniversary next year. I think almost every year, there will be some milestones that we will be celebrating. These will also be opportunities for us to review what we have done, and what we plan to do going forward.

Lianhe Zaobao: DPM, you talked about the new emerging areas. Are we expecting a new or fourth G-to-G project in the near future?

DPM Gan: I mentioned the three G-to-G and one state-level collaboration project. Over the years, we have evolved in many platforms and many models of collaboration. Whether there will be another G-to-G project, it is something that we will discuss and explore from time to time. But I would say that our collaboration now is multifaceted. For example, we have the Smart City initiative with Shenzhen. Some of them are offshoots from the key main projects; some of them are initiatives on its own. We also have a collaboration on the people-to-people (exchanges). On the education side, I talked about the student exchange programmes. All these do not really need a G-to-G, but they have different platforms and avenues. This has evolved, because the needs of both countries have changed over time, and our interests have also shifted over time. It also shows that our relationship is very dynamic, and we must be able to adapt and adjust according to the needs and interests of both countries.

Last year, when then-Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong visited China, he met with President Xi, and we elevated our bilateral relationship to 全方位高质量的前瞻性伙伴关系. This is a comprehensive, high-quality and future-looking partnership. This underlies the nature of our collaboration – it is multifaceted, comprehensive, but at the same time, we want to maintain high quality, and while we are reviewing historical achievements, we have to keep it forward-looking to see how we can strengthen our collaboration going forward. It has to be evolving and morphing all the time to respond to the needs and interests of both countries.

ST: DPM, on the fourth G-to-G project, you talked about how the relationship is dynamic. One dynamic for us is that we have our 4G leaders, and over the years, each of the 3 G-to-G projects was launched under one of our previous Prime Ministers. For Mr Lee Kuan Yew, it was Suzhou; for Mr Goh Chok Tong, it was Tianjin; and for Mr Lee Hsien Loong, it was CCI. As we transit to our 4G generation and we have PM Wong, do you think it is ideal if we have a fourth G-to-G?

DPM Gan: I will not say that it is something that should be tied to the generations of leaders, but it should really be looked at depending on the needs and interests of both countries. As I mentioned, I think our partnership must be built on mutual benefits and interests, and this is the basis for collaboration, and therefore, I think it will evolve over time. Whether or not we will have a fourth G-to-G project really does not depend on whether it is a new leader or not. I think even the same leader can have two projects, and some leaders may not need to have a project. But I think the bilateral relationship will continue to build, strengthen, expand in terms of the scope of our cooperation.

CNA: As we head into 2025 and the General Election is on the horizon, how might a new generation of leaders engage with China? What will be some things that will be carried from past generations and what will change?

DPM Gan Kim Yong: Even before the next General Election, the 4G leadership has already assumed their leadership positions – PM Lawrence Wong has already been appointed Prime Minister. I think there will be opportunities for him to engage (with) the Chinese leadership and continue to find the path forward. The leaders will have their own way of connection and engagement with the other parties, and we will see how it evolves. As I said, PM Wong is not unfamiliar (with China). Last year, he was there (in China) chairing what I am chairing this year – the 19th JCBC, and he also visited a few places in China. I think he knows China very well, and I think the relationship between him and the Chinese leadership will evolve over time. But as I said, with every new generation of leaders, it is important for them to build trust and understanding in their own way, because very often, this trust and understanding is very personal between the leaders. With every new generation, they have to refresh and re-establish this relationship.

Ch 8 News: 可能你先谈一谈关于说接下来这个二十周年究竟JCBC本身必须去怎么样的转变。而这些前瞻性的，接下来你们打算从事与部属一些怎么样的计画? 然后也希望你能够谈谈跟中国领导人未来的这种合作关系。

DPM Gan: 我想JCBC在过去20年，我们见证了两国之间的关系如何发展、如何继续地建立起来，为国人与企业创造了许多的机会，无论是在投资或者是经商的机会。它也带来了许多我们人民与人民之间交流的这些机会。很多新加坡人都到中国去旅游。我们也有很多学生跟中国学生有交流与交换的计划。这些都成为我们两国之间的这个关系的一个不断的成长。

随着时间跟整个国际局势的转变，我们两国之间的关系也会按照当时的需要来转变。我们的合作形式也必须要不断地争取突破。所以我们这一次二十届JCBC的会议，可以说是回首二十载，再创未来。我们是希望一方面，能够回顾过去20年的经验，再来携手创前程，希望能够创造新的一个里程碑、创造一个新的乐章。我们的合作其实是建立在一种互信、互惠、互利的一个基础上。我们希望两国在这个关系上都能够让两国的人民跟企业得到好处，这个是我们最重要的一个宗旨。

Ch 8 News: 能够进一步说明，比如你刚提到，可能接下来你们要讨论的包括这种可持续发展、绿色的经济，还有数码这方面，所以接下来这些都是你们的重点的项目吗？

DPM Gan: 因为经过这几十年的发展，我们所面对的经济的挑战，跟我们世界所面对的一些课题也会有改变。最近这几十年以来，我们开始更加注重的是我们可持续的发展，绿色经济，还有数字经济这几方面。那么中国在这几方面也有非常大的潜能，比如说在绿色能源方面，他们对绿色能源的技术也掌握的非常好。那么新加坡也希望跟中国合作，能够探讨在绿色能源这方面如何去发展这方面的科技。在数字经济方面，我们也希望和中国探讨如何在数字经济上能够合作。我们签好了一些数字经济的备忘录，希望两国之间在数字经济上能够加强合作。这样的话，能够提升两国数字经济的能力，也能够加强合作的机会（不仅）让新加坡的企业能够到中国参与那里的数字经济，中国的企业也能够来到新加坡，利用我们这里的方便，跟东南亚区域的市场，为他们的数字经济的企业开拓新的市场。

Ch 8 News: 所以我们可能会有第四个的这样的政府间的合作项目吗？有考虑这方面吗？

DPM Gan: 新加坡和中国的合作模式在二十年来已经逐渐地多样化。开始的时候，我们有政府跟政府之间合作的项目。比如说，苏州工业园是其中的第一个。接下来，也有天津和重庆这两个项目。但是我想我们已经开始有其他许多不同(合作)的模式。比如说，我们的广州知识城也是以另一个模式，而我们在深圳的智慧城市计划也是另外一个新的计划与模式。除了经济方面之外，我们还有许多其他的人际之间的交流计划。就像刚才我提到的学生交流计划、文化的交流计划，甚至是我们在司法与政府管理的方面也有许多交换计划。所以我们两国之间的合作平台与模式已经多样化的。那么会不会有第四个政府和政府之间的计划呢？这个我们还需要拭目以待。主要的关键是两国之间的兴趣和我们所共同关注的课题是不是有需要有一个政府跟政府之间的合作的计划。这是不是最好的模式？这些都需要继续地探讨。

Ch 8 News: 副总理，能够请你谈一下，就是今年是你第一次接任这次JCBC，然后新加坡也见证了一个领导层的更替 - 黄循财接任总理。所以我们在这个新领导下可以期待什么？新领导跟中国官员的互动又是怎么样？

DPM Gan: 今年是我第一次接任JCBC的联合主席，我非常期待。我非常希望能够与丁薛祥副总理见面，同时一起举行这项会议。其实去年我也跟他见过面。去年当我们举行第十九届会议的时候，当时是黄循财副总理带队，而我也是其中的一个部长成员之一。我也跟他一起开过会。所以这次能够重逢也是很好的一个机遇。我也相信当他到新加坡来的时候，也会和我们的总理叙叙旧。我想这新领导层的阶梯也会带来一个机会。因为每一次新的领导层都需要重新建立他们之间的互信、了解，与他们之间的默契。这些都需要时间，需要刻意地去耕耘的。所以这个也是一个机会，让这些新的领导层能够重新建立他们之间的一种默契跟关系。这对两国之间未来双边关系的发展也是至关重要的。我相信新的领导层会有新的方向和看法，可能也有新的领域他们要继续发展。这是需要两国领导坐下来商谈之后再决定以后的方向怎么走。就好像去年，当时我们的李总理到中国访问的时候，就和习主席设定了这个全方位高质量和前瞻性伙伴关系。这样一个新的伙伴关系就奠定了我们以后发展的一个基础。但是我想每一个新任的领导层都需要重新设定他们的方向并建立他们之间的默契和关系。这是需要花时间和精力去耕耘的。

Ch 8 News: 再谈一谈现在中国的经济放缓，而且又有地缘政治的这个问题的存在，和中美关系之间，你觉得说这样的这些因素会怎么影响到我们的这个JCBC，或者是两国之间这样的一个关系？

DPM Gan: 现在中国的经济我想的确是面对相当大的挑战。一方面，中国从冠状病毒的疫情当中恢复起来是需要一段时间的。特别是中国的经济体是一个非常大的经济体。那么要复苏这个经济体需要很大的力度，也需要很长的一段时间。所以他们需要时间从这个疫情当中恢复过来。第二方面，中国的经济在结构上也在转型当中。比如说，他们的产业市场也需要在这个转型的过程当中。第三方面，中国面对的内部需求也需要提升，鼓励消费，让他们内部的市场能够恢复这个消费力 - 这也是非常重要的。第四方面呢，对外的需求。过去两年我们都知道，全球的经济都放缓下来，加上通货膨胀的压力。所以种种的因素都会导致中国的经济步伐慢了下来。

但是如果我们从一个比较长远的角度来看呢，中国市场与中国经济的潜能还是非常大。这里有几个因素。第一，中国有一个一直在增长当中的中产阶级。这个中产阶级的消费能力是相当大的。主要的是要鼓励与刺激他们的内需。我想中国政府正在着手进行这一系列的措施。除了这个中产阶级的增长之外，中国还有一个非常优秀的劳工队伍。这些劳工队伍都是受过高深的教育，也有非常高级、精密与先进的一些技术。所以无论是在数字经济等方面，都是非常优秀的劳工队伍。第三，中国的企业本身也有很大的创新能力。所以许多新的科技，中国都能够开发。比如说，刚才提到新能源的这些科技中国本身都在开发当中。所以他们中国的企业是有非常高的创造力。这个动力是不可忽视的。第四，中国在对外经济的联系也是在不断的增长当中。包括他们本身的技术措施也有很好的投资与素质。

虽然中国经济目前遇到相当大的阻力，但是如果我们把眼光放长远一点的来讲，中国经济的潜力, 因为这几个因素，还是非常庞大的。所以我们还是需要继续关注中国的发展，继续鼓励新加坡的企业不能够忽视中国市场的潜力。我们(需)继续关注中国，在适当的时机能够继续加强两国之间的经济合作，双方的投资跟贸易。这是非常重要的。

CNA: DPM, China's GDP grew 4.6 per cent in the third quarter, which is lower than the 5 per cent target for the second straight quarter. How might concerns over the Chinese economy impact Singapore-China engagement on the economic front?

DPM Gan: Let me explain. I think China's economy is obviously facing significant headwinds at the moment. There are several reasons for this. Firstly, the economy is recovering from the COVID-19 pandemic not too long ago, and given the size of China's economy, it will take a lot more effort and a bit longer than usual to recover fully. I think the recovery will take some time. Secondly, China's internal demand is also under stress. It will need to stimulate domestic demand, (and) this is something that will also, again, take time. You need to build the confidence so that consumption will go up, and the domestic market will then begin to grow. Thirdly, the Chinese economy is also undergoing transition, particularly in the real estate sector. Several other sectors are also in the process of transition. This transition will, again, take time. The fourth reason is that if you look at the external economic environment, external demand is also relatively weak, given that we had a global economic slowdown the last two years, coupled with inflationary pressures. So, I think external demand has also been affected. Of course, this is not helped by the geopolitical tension and contestation between China, US, and other parts of the world. I think all these factors added together, will cause the Chinese economy to face significant pressure going forward.

But we need to take a longer-term view in our engagement with China. This year, we are holding our 20th JCBC, and SIP is celebrating its 30th anniversary. It is a very long-term collaboration, so our relationship and partnership with China has to be looked at from a long-term perspective. For us to really engage with China and do business in China, it is not (about) trying to make a quick buck — invest in a couple of years, make the profit, and take the money and run. Our relationship with China cannot be done like that. We have to take a longer-term view – invest in China, work hard in China, grow the business in China, and over time, I think you will reap economic benefits and returns. China has many things going for it. I think from a long-term perspective, the prospects remain cautiously optimistic.

There are a few things going for China. Firstly, it has a growing and expanding middle class, and purchasing and consumption power cannot be underestimated. Secondly, it has a very highly-educated, well-trained, highly-skilled workforce, and they are very hardworking and productive, and there is significant room for productivity increase in the labour force. Thirdly, China has very innovative and creative enterprises. Many of the technologies were started from China. Whether it is in the digital economy, the new green economy, sustainable renewable energy – for example, battery technology – they are all very innovative. Because of this creative and innovative enterprise landscape, I think these businesses will do well in the long term. Given these key factors, it is important for us to take a longer-term view, particularly also because China has invested significantly in infrastructure development over the years, so it has very high-quality infrastructure, whether it is in ports, connectivity, or links with the rest of the world. I think it is important for us to recognise the quality of investment they have put into their infrastructure. In the short term, they will face headwinds as they go through the challenges I mentioned earlier. But in the long term, I think the prospects are something that we have to pay attention to.

CNA: DPM, Chinese economic stimulus policies have mostly been to address internal challenges from properties, stock market, local Government debt. But some analysts said little has been said about foreign investment. What is your read into this, and how does it factor into investments from Singapore companies?

DPM Gan: I think for China, they will have to look at their own situation, and tailor their measures according to what they need, what they assess and view as their fundamental issues. As I mentioned, they are going through a transition phase, particularly for the real estate sector. They are still in the process of a transition, so I think it will take some time for the effects to flow through. I think there may be additional measures that the Government may be thinking about. I am not privy to their plans, but I would imagine that they would have a series of measures that will be rolled out, (and) implemented over time progressively.

But again, as I said, China is a very big economy, so many of the measures and strategies have to be implemented step by step, phase by phase. Some of these cannot be rushed. As an outside investor, we just have to continue to assess the situation, monitor the developments very closely, understand what the Chinese Government is doing to stimulate the domestic economy, to restructure the economy, (and) at the same time, continue to be attractive, incentivise and attract foreign investments. I think China has also worked very hard over the last couple of years in attracting foreign investment. We have seen the many missions they have sent overseas on investment promotion to encourage investors to invest in China. Selectively, there are investments being done in China. In Chongqing, for example, we have close to a billion dollars of financing being done for the various projects over the last one year. We have also started projects on connectivity initiatives in Chongqing. These are initiatives that reflect opportunities in specific areas, specific sectors, and maybe specific regions. So, investors have to be selective, focus on areas that have potential. I think there will continue to be opportunities in China, so it is really for businessmen to sense and size up where these opportunities are. I would encourage them to continue keeping an eye on developments (in China) and have a keen business sense to figure out where the opportunities are, so that they can seize these opportunities when they emerge.

CNA: DPM, by the time this airs, we will know who the next US President is. But some analysts have said that no matter who wins the election, America's tough stance on China will stay firm. How will this affect Singapore's relationship with superpowers and with the wider ASEAN region?

DPM Gan: We have always said that the US-China relationship is one of the most important, and it has a very wide impact, not only on the two countries, but also on Singapore and the rest of the world. Singapore, being an open and small economy, it is important for us to have a stable and peaceful global situation for us to be able to do business, earn our keep, (and) find opportunities for our businesses and for our people. It is in Singapore's interest to see a stable and peaceful relationship between the two of them, so that there is more space for countries and economies like us to be able to operate and grow our economy.

We have always said that we are a very close partner with China, and (the fact that) we are holding the 30th anniversary for SIP and 20th JCBC reflects the close partnership that we have with China. China has been our key economic partner. Therefore, we do want to continue to be able to do business with China.

At the same time, we have also told our American friends that America is a very important partner to us too. They are one of the biggest – in fact, they are the biggest – investor in Singapore. Therefore, America is very important to us. We told both sides that both of them are important to us. We really want to continue to be friends with both of them, and continue to do business with both of them. This is a very narrow pathway that we need to navigate, but we have also emphasised to them that our relationship with them must be built on principles, and the principles must be Singapore's national interests. No matter who we work with, whether it is the US, China, or any other country, we always start from the point of view of Singapore's national interests. We always work for Singapore and Singaporeans, and that is our principle. Once our principles are quite clear, it is a lot easier for our partners to understand us, (and) find ways to work with us, because we are very principled, and we know where we stand. It is not for the US or for China, or against the US or against China, but it is always for Singapore. That way, it will make it a lot easier for us to navigate and conduct our relationship with both parties.

We want to continue to (play) this honest broker role to find a way forward. There are also many issues that require everyone to cooperate. These are global issues, whether it is global warming, climate change issues, or even the pandemic, we need every country to be onboard and work together. Singapore is very small. Our carbon emission is very small compared to the whole world's emissions. We do our part — we have set a target, and as all of you know, we are very serious when we set a target, and we do all we can to achieve our target. But even if Singapore were to achieve our target, it is not going to move the needle in terms of climate change. We need every country to achieve their targets. We hope that by us doing so, we demonstrate our willingness and commitment, and hopefully we can encourage and mobilise everyone to go along. But this effort will require all the major powers, major economies, to be onboard. We cannot do it alone, and if there is a big chunk of the world not doing it, I think we will not be able to achieve our climate targets. If we do not achieve our climate targets, (then) all of us will suffer, not just the US, China, or any particular country. Climate change is global, and therefore, I think it is important for us to come together, work together, find a way to move forward on climate change, regardless of political and geopolitical considerations. This is global.

ST: DPM, some analysts think that Singapore has a role to help reduce the tensions between the US and China. What's your view on this?

DPM Gan: I must say Singapore is very small. We do what we can. We articulate our principles (and) desire to see a peaceful and stable relationship between the two (countries). At every international multilateral platform, we articulate our views, and where opportunities arise, we share our thinking and ideas with both sides. But eventually, it really boils down to the bilateral relationship between the two of them, and they will have to continue to work with one another. From Singapore's perspective, we are happy to see that there is a communication channel being established at different levels. This is very important, because I think competition is a given. Singapore has been competing with everybody else in the world, so I think competition is a given. It is perfectly okay to compete with one another economically and in other fields.

But at the same time, there must be space for cooperation and collaboration. I talked about global issues like climate change. There must be ways to cooperate and work together. But even as you compete and cooperate, you need to continue to have very effective communication channels so as to minimise misunderstanding and mistakes that could create undesirable outcomes. That is very important – to avoid misunderstanding and mistakes. The communication becomes very important, and we are happy to see that there are communication channels being established at different levels, and there are regular exchanges. Competition will continue, but so long as there is communication, I think there is a chance to continue to have a constructive relationship, (and) a conducive environment for both parties to move ahead, and that will create more space for economies like Singapore to be able to thrive, succeed, and progress.

ST: Do you think it would help if Singapore called out either side, should they adopt positions that would raise tensions?

DPM Gan: As I said, Singapore adopts a very clear principle. Once there are issues that we think violate international principles, we will articulate our views. Sometimes we do so openly; sometimes we do so bilaterally. (We) share our views with them, and see how we can move forward. We work through different channels, platforms, and ways to see how we can share our views. Again, I want to emphasise that we are very small. We have our own limitations, but we want to do what we can, within our ability, to share our views and see how we can help create this conducive environment.

ZB: DPM, maybe coming back to the part about your engagement with the Chinese officials. Have you observed any differences between now and previously? With that in mind, how do you intend to strengthen it further in our engagement?

DPM Gan: I have been involved in China for many decades. Even when I was in the private sector, we have businesses in China. After joining the Government, I have continued to engage China in different platforms and ways. I think our relationship has also grown and evolved over time. In the beginning, when we started the SIP, it was about industrialisation, sharing our industrialisation experience with China, and using the SIP as a model to see how we can replicate Singapore's industrial progress in Suzhou. But now, as I mentioned, SIP has matured – it has grown beyond Suzhou, and they are trying to also replicate (it) beyond China. I think our relationship has also grown, developed, and matured, and now we are engaging China on multiple platforms, and it is a multifaceted approach. In different areas, we have different ways of sharing with one another.

In terms of sustainability – green economy, for example – we are learning from them about green energy, sustainability, and many of the technologies that they are developing. On digitalisation, we are also sharing with them. In terms of access to Southeast Asia, we are also supporting China to see how we can play a role as a gateway and platform, to allow them to make use of Singapore's channel to access the Southeast Asian market, and help them to also understand the operating environment in Southeast Asia. These are different ways of collaboration. I think we will need to understand the dynamics between the two countries, and see how we can continue to explore and identify areas that will be mutually beneficial, and these will be the areas that we can cooperate and work together (on).

ST: I would like to ask you if you have any advice for Singapore companies, especially for our property companies. You mentioned about the structural economic transition, and many of our Singapore companies are in property. Should they continue investing? Also, what advice do you have for our companies in trade and manufacturing? They may be worried that they may get burned by US sanctions if they take part in the China Plus One sort of schemes. Given all these economic headwinds, should our Singapore companies adopt a wait-and-see attitude first?

DPM Gan: The world is changing very quickly. The global economic landscape is also evolving very rapidly, and there are a lot of challenges emerging. Geopolitical competition is something that you mentioned. I think this is the reality of the day. But at the same time, even as there are these challenges that will result in many of the restructuring of supply chains, for example, there are also opportunities emerging. The key is for our businessmen to have a sense of where it is going – the direction of these shifts – and find opportunities in between, (so as) to be able to do well, survive, and prosper. These are businessmen and entrepreneurs. I am not an entrepreneur, so I can only give a broad direction, but it is really up to the businessmen to identify and find ways to navigate and make progress. I think that is the key entrepreneurial spirit that businessmen have to exercise.

But broadly, as I mentioned earlier, I think we need to continue to monitor China's development, as it undergoes its transition and restructuring, and find out where the opportunities are. Even in today's world, there are still a lot of opportunities in China, and you just have to identify which are the opportunities that will hold the greatest promise and potential for growth in the future. With the China-US relationship and tension between the two, it is important to monitor the developments in the US, and the developments in the bilateral relationship. And not just the US, because it has also impact on the rest of the world. So, look at how Europe deals with China, and how China deals with Asia, and how we can play a role in this transition under this landscape. The businessmen have to be creative and develop new ways of engaging them.

One area, for example, that will be of great interest for us is food security. We import a lot of food stuff from China. We can continue to grow the food supplies from China as part and parcel of our food resilience strategy. There will be opportunities that we can look at — importing more food supplies from China, for example. Even in manufacturing, China continues to be a very cost-effective manufacturing base – (it is) whether we can look at how we can collaborate with China on some of the manufacturing, so that we produce part of the components here, and (produce) some of the components there, so that we can take advantage of the competitive advantage between the two countries. This has always been the case for economic development. The key is really for businessmen to see how they can identify opportunities and seize (them) when they arise.

You (also) asked about property. I think there will continue to be opportunities. I talked to a few businessmen who are in real estate. Even in real estate in China, there will continue to be opportunities, (but) you just have to be very selective, have a very clear assessment of the potential of the property projects, and be quite clear (of) the risks and rewards of these projects, and make your own calculations. I am not in the property business, so I cannot give property advice to property developers, but generally, I think there will continue to be opportunities. But in the environment today, whether in China or elsewhere, one has to be very selective, targeted, quite clear (of) your own strengths and weaknesses, and be selective in where you want to do business.

CNA: DPM, you have visited China in multiple capacities, what were some of your personal anecdotes and experiences that have shaped your approach in your new role?

DPM Gan: I visit China, sometimes as a tourist, many years ago as a private businessman, and now as a Government official. Even as (a) Government official, there are different roles that I visit them (for); and every time I visit them, I always take the opportunity to meet some of the businessmen and companies to have a better understanding of China’s landscape. My general feeling is that China is very diverse. If you go to different areas and regions of China, they are also very different. The people are very different, (and) their skillsets, ability, and potential (are) also very different. So, we should not treat China as one big economy, and think that (if) you do the same thing here, you can do the same thing everywhere else in China. Every area is different, and their ability, capability, potential, and opportunities are very different. It is important for our businessmen who want to do business there to understand the local situation, how to operate in the local environment, and be patient, work with local people, local authorities, and local partners, to see how we can grow and build a business.

My advice, as I said earlier, is do not try to go in to make a quick buck. I think that would be the wrong approach. You must be prepared to go in to build a business over time. If you are able to take a longer-term view, I think there will be rewards. If you take a very short-term view, I think sometimes you succeed, sometimes you do not, it is more a matter of luck. I will encourage you to take a longer-term view and do your calculations – be very targeted, specifically exactly what you want to do, and where you want to go, and understand your own strengths and the strengths of the partners that you have in China, or the businesses you are going to go in(to). Make a very clear and sharp calculation, and that will benefit the businessmen.

ST: Could I follow up with that and ask for anecdotes? You talk about (how) you went there for travel. Could you share any fun places you have been to, any fun food you tried, any fun people you talked to?

DPM Gan: I went to Guizhou in China many times, because when I was younger in the private sector, we had an investment in Guizhou. But I have never had a chance to tour Guizhou until I stepped down from the private sector. The last time I went to Guizhou to visit a plant, I decided why not take an afternoon to go and just look around Guizhou. Then, I realised Guizhou is very pretty, and they have a huge waterfall. I visited the waterfall, and I regretted not having more time. Every time I went for a meeting, I finished the meeting, I took the flight and came home. There are actually a lot of places that you can visit and see (in China), and everywhere you go, they have a different culture. And the different people you talk to, their thinking is different, and you always find it quite enriching just talking to people, understanding where they come from, what they do, their way of life, their approach to life, and they can be quite different.